Thursday, June 29, 2006

Town Emblem Stamps


M. & G. Shamir designed two series of town emblem stamps. The first series was issued between March 24, 1965 and Feb. 8, 1967 and the second series was issued between July 9, 1969 and Oct. 18, 1970. Among the stamps there is the emblem of
Tel Aviv designed by Nahum Gutman with the seven small stars that Theodor Herzl's planned for a seven-hour workday next to a large Magen David
Ashkelon's emblem with 5 Stars of David that stand for the 5 quarters of the town;
Herzeliya emblem with Theodor Herzl's seven Stars of David.
Picture of Tel Aviv emblem stamp is courtesy of Dobush.

Tuesday, June 27, 2006

Theodor Herzl Window Design

magen David Theodor Herzl Window Design




















Star of David hovers over Theodor Herzl - stained glass window by Ephraim Moshe Lilien in "Bney brith" club in Hamburg, November 1904 . Title:"Moses"
It seems that because of his prominent role in the history of the Star of David Theodor Herzl and the Star of David tend to appear together, like twin brothers. 
Source: Wikimedia

Star of David hovers over Rabbi Hillel
Stained glass window by Ephraim Moshe Lilien in "Bney brith" club in Hamburg, November 1904 .

Theodor Herzl's tombstone

Theodor Herzl's tombstone Stars of David


Picture is courtesy of Wikimedia Commons
There are a lot of Stars of David on Theodore Herzl's tombstone. He was buried in Vienna on the 7 July 1904, next to his father. Die Welt reported that six thousand people came to the funeral from all over the world.
BTW if one sums the digits of the day and month of his funeral [7 July (7th month)] it equals14 which is the sum of the digits in the Hebrew letters of David and the same goes for the sum of the digits of the year 1904. Experts on numerology will probably understand what this means. For me it's just an association that Theodore Herzl was a Shield (of David) that protected the Jewish People from its numerous enemies.
Stars of David surrounded Herzl at least since June 4 1897 when he published the first issue of Die Welt.

WWII Normandy American Cemetery


Star of David Picture from WWII American Cemetery in Normandy  is courtesy of "tmmiller' from Flickr.

The graves of soldiers of Jewish faith were marked with the Star of David

The Star of David is a Star

As I already mentioned earlier there are many synonyms for the term Star of David and the most elementary one is that it is a certain star in the Sky.
That's how Benjamin Disraeli used it in his historical romance Alroy:
As I gazed upon the Star of David, a sudden halo rose around its rays, and ever and anon a meteor shot from out the silver veil.
When I read Disraeli's book I was looking for a detailed description of David Alroy's Shield, but instead I came up with the above mentioned excerpt..
To this simple interpretation we may add Rashi and Iben Ezra's comment that Bilam's prediction
["There shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel" (Numbers 24:17)] is about King David. Maybe this is the source of the questionable translation of the Hebrew words Magen (Shield) David into the English words Star of David.

Krakov Ghetto Gate

Krakov Ghetto Gate magen David
magen David over Krakov Ghetto Gate

Missing Demands

In Capernaum synagogue there's a stone with an engraving in the shape of the Star of David on it. Since this stone is in a Jewish environment researchers guess that it was a Jewish symbol. The fact is that nobody knows whether the community that used this synagogue ascribed to this shape the meaning that we ascribe to it today (sign of Judaism and/or Zionism and/or Israel) and nobody knows if the community that used this synagogue named it in the same name as we do.
Anyhow, there's quite a difference between the terms "symbol of Judaism" and "Jewish Symbol". Most of the papers I read so far bring a list of artifacts similar to the one found in Capernaum, artifacts that were found on different sites in ancient Israel. These have the shape of the Star of David but they don't have the matching name or meaning. We don't even know WHAT they symbolized.
IMHO a Star of David must meet all the above three demands (shape name and meaning) in order to differentiate it from other cultures' hexagram. Since all the artifacts found in ancient Israel have for certain only the shape of the symbol I don't consider them as more than hexagrams until the missing demands will be completed.

Monday, June 26, 2006

Kosher Seal

I was quite surprised to find a Star of David on a Kosher Seal (seal of approval that the food is edible for an Orthodox Jew). 

There are Israeli Orthodox Jews who don't like the Star of David because it represents the "secular" state, but in this case it seems that the religious and the non-religious meanings of the symbol can live in a harmony on the same box of mushrooms.

Birth Dates

Guy Stair Sainty wrote on his website that in 1912 and 1913 two books about the Jewish families that belonged to the European nobility were published. In these books birth dates were indicated with the hexagonal Star of David. these books were later used by the Nazis to identify jews for extermination…

Sunday, June 25, 2006

David Alroy

In the twelfth century, (according to the Hebrew Wikipedia), David Alroy, who was born as Menahem Ben Shlomo Alroy, proclaimed that he was the Messiah. He founded in Khazaria a Messianic Jewish movement that intended to conquer Palestine. He used the Star of David as his emblem. Since his name is the same name as of King David and King Solomon there is a theory that this symbol started to spread not from the times of the first Jewish Temple but from the twelfth century.

Cemeteries

Cemeteries magen David

Yoram Bar-Gal Maoz Azaryahu from the University of Haifa published a paper about Israeli Cemeteries and Jewish Tradition where they claim that today both Sephardi and Ashkenazy Jews make frequent use of classic Jewish symbols: the Star of David and the menorah.

The Star of David is found by scientific researchers in all kinds of spooky places like cemeteries, archeological sites, ruined synagogues, archives and libraries while non-scientific info collectors like me prefer looking for these stars in the marketplace, where people use it and react to it. Nevertheless Bar-Gal and Azaryahu's paper is full of surprising data and I recommend reading it in its entirety.


Legion 1

Yesterday I traveled to Ashdod to take a break from my Star of David Project but was attacked by a legion of these emblems hanging above a cars selling agency lot.

Legion 2


Closer look at a cars selling agency lot with a huge amount of Stars of David per meter.

Saturday, June 24, 2006

Exposure

I'm sure that millions of Mondial watchers saw the Star of David for the first time in their life when defender John Paintsil waved the flag of Israel after Ghana's 2-0 win over the Czech Republic
Of course, he and his team were vilified in the Arab press for brandishing the Star of David, after scoring goals against the Czech Republic. Indeed, some hostile papers even suggested he might be a Mossad agent. Ghana was forced to apologize for any offence caused by waving the flag.
Paintsil hid the flag in his socks and IMHO he opened a new business opportunity for his colleagues: to get money for commercial campaigns; after the next time a soccer player will pull out a banner from his socks the Mondial administrators will surely come up with a new law threatening to punish the whole team.

Simon Wiesenthal

Magen David on Simon Wiesenthal Stamp

Recently there was a ceremony at Nazi-hunter Simon Wiesenthal grave. Six small stones were put on his tombstone against the six million Jews murdered in the Holocaust; each stone carved with a Magen David.

Over Translation

E. R. Goodenough claims in his book Jewish Symbols during the Greco-Roman Period (1953-1968) That translating the term Magen David into Shield of David is an over translation; for a regular translation the word protection should suffice.
It is important to understand that in Hebrew "Magen" means both "protection" and "shield". It is a homonym. This is quite an insight. It is so simple that nobody I read seemed to notice it. The meaning of the Magen David is as old as the book of Psalms that was written according to Jewish tradition by King David, who called the lord "my shield". Goodenough's insight adds another theory to the origin of the Star of David. Sometime after the writing of Psalms somebody started spreading the concept of the Shield of David and people liked the new poetic twist so much that they built a legend around it. No wonder that archeologists didn't find any evidence for the physical Shield of David.

Friday, June 23, 2006

Goodenough

Today I went to the National Library in the Hebrew University in Jerusalem for the first time in 30 years. It is quite an experience to come back to any place after such a long time. I remembered the face of the librarian and asked her:
-How many years do you work here?
She sighed and answered:
- More the 30 years.
I said I remembered her from the period of my studies 30 years ago.
She smiled.
Later she helped me a lot to find my way in the labyrinth of books.
In the first hour I felt like a stranger but towards the end of the day I started feeling back at home. Eventually I found myself leafing the 13 volumes of E. R. Goodenough Jewish Symbols during the Greco-Roman Period (1953-1968). On the 7th volume as far as I can remember I found on page 198 a short chapter about the Star of David and went down to photocopy it.
The bottom line is that Goodenough suspects that the origin of the Star of David is from the rosette but hasn't got any direct evidence for his hunch. In a way this hunch fits extraordinarily Uri Ofir's theory that the origin of the Star of David is from the ROSE SHAPED candleholder of the Menorah. The difference is of course that Uri Ofir has the needed evidence.

Customs

I found this Star of David emblem at the custom offices in Ashdod and the clerk told me that this logo was replaced lately by a new one, which raises the question if the Star of David can disappear if the mode changes?

Thursday, June 22, 2006

Torah Reading Tables

Torah Reading Tables magen David

Torah Reading Tables magen David picture ©2005 Steve Henry Herman / all rights reserved

I just got an Email from Steve Henry Herman who enjoyed my blog and commented:

I too have a fascination with the Star of David, and have used it in several Torah reading tables I designed and built for sanctuaries in North Carolina. I use the inherent strength of the Star (interlocking triangles) as the central structural key to the tables
.I like surprising intimate and personal interpretation of the Star of David. This one belongs definitely to this category. Steve Henry Herman's Star of David transmits strength. I can feel it just from looking at this picture


Israel is 541

Magen David Israel is 541 picture is courtesy of Richard Amiel McGough
Richard Amiel McGough's supplies his readers with numerological interpretations of the meaning of the Star of David. The one I liked the most was that the sum of the Hebrew letters in the word Israel is 541 and it is the same as the number of dots that appear in a Star of David in which n=10.

6n(n-1) +1

6.10=60

60.9=540

540+1=541

10 =I="yud"

300 =S="shin"

200 =R="reish"

1 =A="aleph"

30 =L="lamed"

541

(E is not counted since in Hebrew the A already covers this base).

According to scientific probability what are the odds that the number of dots in the emblem of Israel will equal the sum of the numerical value of the letters in the word ISRAEL? Amazing!

Wednesday, June 21, 2006

Magen David Album

Today I started a New Hebrew blog on http://magendavidalbum.blogspot.com/. I hope this will satisfy all those readers who said that this blog must be also in Hebrew. Still, first stage will be with minimal text since I don't have time right now to translate all the stuff that was accumulated on this blog.

 I hope this new initiative will enlarge our club of Star of David enthusiasts and that I'll get some new photos from my new readers.

 I reckon that seeing so many surprising photos without reading long texts will be a different experience for all of us…  

 

St. Mark Cathedral

There are so many loose ends in the research about the origin of the Star of David. Take for example the stone with an engraved Star of David  found in St. Mark’s Cathedral in Venice. legend has it that the stone was brought to Venice from the Temple in Jerusalem. I reckon there are hundreds of such riddles and solving each one of them might shed more light on this complicated issue.

  

Tuesday, June 20, 2006

hidden synagogue


Photo of  hidden synagogue Magen David is courtesy of Jessica Gonzalez aka "Captain Che" from Flickr 

Titus Gate


Photo courtesy of Martin Begrich ("rishon-lezion") from Flickr
Researcher Uri Ofir deduced from this Menorah that " the sculptor of the Titus Gate created a lily that had 6 petals out of which we see only 3 in side projection". Uri Ofir claims that this is one of the proofs that the Star of David started from the Menorah.
The following paragraph is from Dr. Asher Eder’s book The Star of David, which was published in 1987 in English in Jerusalem by Rubin Mass Ltd. The publication here is courtesy of Oren Mass
This version includes corrections and new materials that do not appear on the printed version
Another ancient symbol of harmony and peace is the Menorah, the seven-branched candelabrum supported by three legs:
In our context, this may tell us that peace, betokened by the Menorah, cannot be established upon one or two legs; all three of them, symbolizing the three main descendants of Abraham and their respective religions, are required to reach a stable peace.
We may infer this from a saying by Solomon, the King of Peace, who said in his wisdom that "a threefold cord is not easily broken."
A mere changing or redesigning of symbols will not do. The actual change requires a relearning which would indeed be the learning of the ways of the God of Jacob, as enjoined by the Prophets. Such a process of reeducation may last for several generations, till we can really "beat the swords into plough shares."
While Christians have at least begun this process through events such as the Vatican Council II and the recent declarations of several Protestant Churches, the Islamic world still needs a harbinger for this new age of grace and truth, righteousness and peace.
May it be God's Will that Mankind comes to understand this without another destructive and devastating war.

Anti Zionist Cartoons

I read an article about The Arab Media's Portrayal of Jews, which had several examples of anti Zionist cartoons (out of thousands that are published every year). It seems that there are people who need this food and pay for it.  One of the main means to instantly identify Zionism is the cartoonist's use of the Star of David. 
 Akhbar al-Khalij, January 29, 2006 (Bahrain)
Danish cheese shaped like a Star of David to show the Zionist penetration in Denmark.
Ash-Sharq, February 19, 2006 (Qatar)
The "Western media" bows in front of a menorah with a Star of David.
Al-Watan, January 6, 2006 (Qatar)
A Jew with a Star of David inscribed on his cylinder hat digs a tunnel in the shape of the Star of David under the Temple Mount mosque.
 Al-Bayan, December 22, 2005 (United Arab Emirates)
An Ultra orthodox Jew with a Star of David on his hat and on his shirt is playing Yo Yo with a ball in the shape of the world.
Al-Yawm, December 1, 2005 (Saudi Arabia)
The words born to kill designed so that the K of Kill is made by strengthening certain lines of a Star of David and the letters LL are made by the blue stripes of the Israeli flag.
 Ar-Rai, November 5, 2005 (Jordan)
A Palestinian kid is crucified on a Star of David.
Al-Watan, February 3, 2004 (Oman)
An Ultra orthodox Jew with a Star of David on his overcoat slaughters a Palestinian with the Arabic words Feast of the Immolation.
Tishrin, April 21, 2002 (Syria)
An Ultra orthodox Jew with a Star of David on his overcoat stands on a pulpit in USA while the statue of Liberty lays smashed on the floor.



The Fleet of King Solomon



Uxmal  hexagram
From: Second Annual Report Of the Bureau of Ethnology for 1880‑1881, Washington, 1883, Pl. 57, No. 5, William H. Holmes, Art in Shell of the Ancient Americans pp. 174‑305.

I read on Symbols.com, an online Encyclopedia  of religious symbols, that the Star of David appeared in pre-Columbian America in Uxmal on a cliff engraving from around 1000 C.E. Encyclopedia sounded to me like a good enough authority so I followed it and found thousands of photos of Uxmal  on Google Images search engine. After I was convinced that such a place is not a fantasy I found a report by Dr. Greg Little who filmed a documentary in 2004 in the National Archaeological Museum of Guatemala where he saw another Star of David that was discovered in Tikal  
Uxmal is a large ruined city of the Maya civilization in the state of Yucatan, Mexico. Tikal is in the Peten region of Guatemala - the largest ruined city of the Maya civilization.

These findings are most probably hexagrams, but there is a slight chance that they  are Stars of David used by the Israelites from the fleet of King Solomon.
On October 16, 1971 professor M. Wells Jakeman from Brigham Young University published an article titled “The Star Of David In Ancient America?” with a  Fig. 1. 
Part of sculpture in bas-relief on a Stela recently unearthed in Campeche, Mexico, and now in the National Museum of Mexico...According to Prof. Alexander von Wuthenau of the University of the Americas in Mexico City (as reported by the Associated Press on March 23, 1971), the ear ornament is an earring which has in its center the "Star of david,"…
See also: Goblet d'Alviella, The Migration of Symbols (London, 1894, p. 226, Fig. 128)

Monday, June 19, 2006

Theresienstadt Ghetto Hidden Synagogue

On Flickr I found two photos of Stars of David on the ceiling of the Hidden Synagogue in Theresienstadt ghetto, a town in the former Czechoslovakia, northwest of Prague. The Hidden Synagogue was discovered during the remodeling of a private home in 1997. This story proves in a deep emotional way the special connection that Jews in these horrible conditions made between the shape and the Zionist meaning of their emblem.

  


Saint Petersburg Bas Relief

I found a well designed website about Saint Petersburg which is intended to promote tourism to this city. There are a few impressive Star of David bas-reliefs without any "historical or architectural analysis", so that it is not clear if they are Jewish, and most chances are that they are non Jewish hexagrams. Anyhow they are so interesting and aesthetic that I decided to let you readers enjoy them.

Readers who can shed some light about this riddle of the Saint Petersburg bas-relief are invited to send me their comments.

Bolshaya Podyacheskaya Ulitsa, 36

Above the entrance: two warriors shaking hands. They look like Roman legionaries. One of them holds a Shield of David.

  Zagorodny Prospect, 7

Star of David on gates which lead into the yard of the inn of Konevsky monastery

 

 Liteyny Prospect, 21

Star of David in a circle above the window

 Bolshoy Prospect P.S., 77

Star of David in a circle on the roof of the entrance

  Goncharnaya Ulitsa, 12

"Cultivated" form of a Star of David in a circle

 Ploschad Ostrovskogo, 5

"Cultivated" form of a Star of David in a circle

  11 Liniya V.O., 20

Anti Semite Horned satyr-demon on a Star of David

   Anichkov Garden (Nevsky Prospect)

the Russian State Emblem, Double-headed eagle, holds in its claws the Star of David in a circle.

 Naberezhnaya Kanala Griboedova

Star of David in a circle on the facade of the Church of Christ's Resurrection, also called "the Saviour-on-Blood".

 

Sunday, June 18, 2006

Blue Box

The Blue Box, JNF's collection Box, was invented by Haim Kleinman, a bank clerk from Galicia, east Europe. It started spreading right after the founding of the Jewish National Fund in December l90l. It became the most popular Zionist symbol and used for purchasing land in Palestine. It is so called because of its blue and white colors.
The Star of David appeared for the first time on the center of the late 1920s blue box version over the words, "The Jewish National Fund". In the early 1930s the classic blue box was re-designed and had the Star of David on both sides.

Star of David Mirror Illusion 2


Photo of mirror illusion star of David was taken at Ofer Rubin's workshop


Star of David hanger for windchimes

My son visited Ofer Rubin in his windchimes workshop in Rosh Pina and brought me some photos of Ofer's Star of David products.
This is a hanger for windchimes.

Star of David mobile

This is an Ofer Rubin Star of David wood mobile
Photo was taken by my son at Ofer Rubin's workshop

Star of David Mirror Illusion 1

My son visited Ofer Rubin in his windchimes workshop in Rosh Pina and brought me some photos of Ofer's Star of David Products:

1. Two mirros triple the view and make 6 candles illusion where in reality there are only two and a Star of David instead of its third in reality.
2. A wood mobile of a Star of David.
3. A hanger for windchimes.
Ofer couldn't explain
in words why is he so drawn to this shape. Sometimes there is no need to explain.

Rare Coins

On Rosenblum’s collection of rare coins I found a few that have the Star of David inscribed on them. The designers equate Star of David with Zionism, or equate it with Judaism.
1882. Star of David above a Torah scroll
Late 19th Century Edmond Rothschild and Montifiore with Star of David
Early 20th century Pin- White Star of David on blue background encircling the word "Zion" in Hebrew in gold
1919- Nordeu's 70th birthday..
1968- Theodore Herzl with 7 stars
World War II Metal pin with Star of David of the Jewish Brigade.
Emblem of the Engineering Unit of the Brigade
1980. Raoul Wallenberg
19th Century Silver: Moses holding the 10 Commandments

Saturday, June 17, 2006

Forgery

In the researches of Gershom Schlem, Gerbern Oegema, and other serious academic scholars artifacts are one of the main issues. They base much of their theories on the physical evidence found in the field. Archaeological excavations have top priority and every new dig can jeopardize the whole concept.
The main artifacts in the research of the Star of David are very problematic: who knows if the seal found in Sidon is really Jewish, or if the Star of David in the Capernaum synagogue is not Pagan or Christian. From an article by Uzi Dahari I gained another question mark about this prominence of Archaeological evidence:
How can we be sure that these are not FORGERIES?
Uzi Dahari wrote in his article titled "Archaeological Forgeries" :
While visiting the excavation at Ein-Gedi, conducted by my friend Professor Hirschfeld of the Hebrew University, I saw that he was very excited and told me that a unique talisman with Jewish symbols had just been found.. I looked at it and told him I am sure it is a forgery. There were no Star of David symbols in use as a Jewish symbol in the late Roman and early Byzantine era…

Mildenhall treasure

Mildenhall Hexagram

Picture by

© Sheepdog Rex from Flickr


The Mildenhall treasure of Roman silver objects is exhibited in the British Museum. The treasure was discovered in 1943 in the small town Mildenhall, Suffolk, England. It was buried in the 4th century. On the center of a fluted silver bowl (Diameter: 40.8 cm) there is a Star of David. Researchers presume that the bowl was intended to hold water for washing hands at table.

Researchers say that it has no connection to Judaism.

My late mentor, Dr. Ze'ev Goldmann taught me to look at all the elements in each artifact, and here we see a six petaled flower inside the hexagon, and many more flowers between the points.
The six petaled flower inside the hexagon is a very common (floral) motif in Roman mosaics, but the flowers between the points seem unique.


M. Costa ["Hatakh ha-zahav, hotam Shelomoh u-magen-David", Poalim, 1990, Hebrew, pp. 160] wrote that identical Stars of David were found on four out of ten similar silver bowls in the Anglo-Saxon 7th century ship burial at Sutton Hoo, near Woodbridge, Suffolk , England. It was discovered 
in 1939 and contained a wealth of artifacts.

Sutton Hoo Bowl with a Christian star of David 

Photo Courtesy of © Sheepdog Rex from Flickr
In the central hexagon there's an 8 petaled flower
inside each triangle- a Fleur de Lys
Between the triangles - birds (Christian doves?)
and the star of David is in the center of a large Cross
made from 16 rhombs each of which is  surrounded by a circle


Raziel the Angel



On The 13th century Book of Raziel the Angel pp. 77 (printed in Amsterdam in 1701) there are five
 Magen Davids on one page, four of them with the name of god written in it. The context is: preparing kabalistic amulets. The book is written in Hebrew and in Aramaic.

Protocols of the Elders of Zion

Star of David appears on "Protocols of the Elders of Zion and their Biblical and Talmudic Origins 2003 by Ahmad Hijazi al-Saqa prof Comp Religion Al-Azhar".
On Google images there are more than 300 photos of the front cover of this book in various languages which can serve as an introductory album to anti-Semitism.
The Intelligence and Terrorism Information center the Center for Special Studies (C.S.S) published on January 2004 a Special Information Bulletin about the new Arabic edition of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion that was issued in Egypt in July 2002. On the front cover there's an illustration
"meant to depict the “Jewish world government” scheming to take over the world while looking for inspiration in Jewish religious books. In the foreground are two Jewish symbols, the seven-branched candelabrum and the Magen David (Star of David)".
The article brings photos of front covers from previous editions of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion which appeared in Egypt and on some of them there is a Star of David; like the one from the 1976 edition that shows a red Star of David encircling a monster and the one from the 1994 edition that shows a snake raising its head in the center of a red Star of David.
The Protocols of the Elders of Zion were a source of inspiration for Hitler
We read in Hitler's book. "In our times, the Jews' goal is a second revolution under the Star of David. When this book becomes well known to people, the Jewish danger can be considered overcome forever.
The Protocols were exposed as a forgery made for the Russian secret police in 1905 by Lucien Wolf in 1920, by Philip Graves, a correspondent for the London Times, in 1921 and by Herman Bernstein in 1935 – but hate and truth do not mix; they are like water and oil

Star of David appears on the front cover of
Los protocolos de los sabios se Sion 
Argentinian edition


 Another Star of David appears on the front cover of
Los protocolos de los sabios se Sion 
Argentinian edition
Depicting the Jew as a beast




  Another Star of David  with swastika
appears on the front cover of
Los protocolos de los sabios se Sion 
Argentinian edition





  Another Star of David as a death sign
appears on the front cover of
Los protocolos de los sabios se Sion 
Argentinian edition

Friday, June 16, 2006

Jewish Police

 

Jewish Police Magen David

 Metal badge with a Star of David of a Jewish policeman in the Czestochowa ghetto, 1942

Public domain photo from the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

 I saw this photo on Wikipedia and went to the source to find similar pictures, which were not Public domain, but supplied more info about this issue:

 A Jewish border policeman stands by a guardhouse on a street corner in the Lodz ghetto, with a Star of David on his chest, 1940 – 1944.

 A Jewish policeman helps two women move their belongings to new quarters in the Kovno ghetto. Under this picture I found an extensive explanation about the Kovno ghetto Jewish police force.  The German created it in July 1941.

 There were many more photos of Jewish policeman on other ghettos but they didn't have this Star of David badge on their chests…